Gun Tech

First post in the boat forum, so please excuse my lack of knowledge. I have the opportunity to get my hands on a very large RC ship (10 feet long and 300+lbs). Unique, because the hull was fabricated from sheet steel, hence the weight and constructed before WWII. In a nutshell, all of the vintage control bits are a lost cause due to lack of replacement parts and deterioration, but the good part is that a handful of modern electronics will replace them without great cost or weight and all would be out of sight during display or operation. The upper decking is period modeled to a moderate level of detail, but not to the level many vessels are today. I would be content to restore the superstructure to its original condition to keep with the vintage vibe. After researching for a few weeks, I realize these extremely large models are a very small segment of the market and while expensive new, resale is poor. Luckily, I am more interested in restoring it as a piece of history and bringing it back to life and operability. My question is this, considering the aspect of a total gut job on the hull and a need for a disassembly, strip and refinish of the decking/superstructure, what would one expect to pay for what amounts to a hull this large? The only reusable components in it would be the gearbox and props, the decking and superstructure certainly took someone many hours to construct, but I will be doing a total strip and refinish to get it presentable. Should I keep the offer below $1000, $1500, $2000....? I would prefer to save this piece, but don't want to be a fool with investing too much into the starting point. I would just appreciate some feedback from those that have gone to the "deep end of the pool". I will add that though I have no experience with boats, I am familiar with RC, have a machine shop stuffed into my garage and a fairly broad set of fabrication skills. However! I am not gifted as a modeler, so I would be using the building blocks done by another many decades ago and merely performing restoration of the visible areas. All of the mechanicals are well in my scope for modernization. I am prone to investing myself into the lost causes and chasing windmills, so I'm not terribly worried about the end cost, but paying a fair price for the base project. My goal is the WOW! factor and using that as an excuse to share the history behind its original construction.
Thanks

Mark

The Saylors

You should post a pic of the boat as that will give everyone a better idea of what you are looking at. Large to scale boats do a have a small crowd but not so small that there isn't a market for it. It really comes down to level of detail and quality of the parts used as well as features like working missile ports, recoiling gun turrets, smoking smoke stacks ect. As far as price it will really come down to what you are comfortable with in terms of making custom parts as well as how often you will get to use it. spending 2k on a skeleton that you will use once or twice a year is not gunna make most people happy. As for re-sale large scale guys either want savage speed or extreme attention to detail so unless you are willing to go all the way there will be little chance of re-selling it. In all honesty you will either finish the boat and be attached due to all the work you did and wont ever wanna sell or you will complete it and not want to even look at it because it was so much work lol.

Gun Tech

Saylors,
I appreciate the reply. That's why I said it is a period piece, the level of detail is reasonable and doesn't look like an inexpensive child's toy, but light years from what we see today. This is a battleship with turrets that turn and fire blanks, but no elevation and they haven't operated in almost 70 years. Radar, missiles and other technology didn't exist when the real ship was built, so luckily those details don't pose a problem and the other items on board are to a vague scale for appearance, not technical accuracy. I guess I should have clarified myself, I don't care about resale value, I just don't want to overpay for a starting point for something that has a bit of history due to its age. The earliest reference to the model's construction is from the 1930's. I know the way early RC models were often lacking in detail compared to today's standards, I own 2 Seki Tiger tanks from the 1970's and they are close at a glance for accuracy, but a close review shows a great deal of liberty in regards to technical accuracy, this ship is the same thing and it doesn't pose much concern to me. Again, I truly appreciate the input, I just want to make a fair deal for it. I don't want to steal it, I just don't want to be a fool.
Thanks

Mark

Gun Tech

P.S.
The nice part is I have two RC boat areas within 15 minutes of my house, so using it wouldn't be a herculean effort to get out with it.

Mark

The Saylors

OIC that makes sense. I would just ask the guy what would make him happy and if that falls within the bounds of what will make you happy then go for it! Sight unseen i would think 1k-1500 would be fairish for both parties involved. Hope you have someone to help you carry it lol 300lbs is a lot of weight! As a side note does it fire gun blanks or just "fire cracker" (not sure what the technical name is) blanks? I dont know if you can fire gun blanks like that in public any more, you may wanna check local law to be sure. Dont want a new toy getting you in trouble. If they do take gun blanks then that sure is cool, bet it looked/sounded awesome firing in its day. Bet it scared the hell out of the ducks lol

ob nut

My Feedback: (1)

Gun Tech,

Agree with all stated, even though I'm not into "scale" boats, but certainly can appreciate the effort one puts into the detail these boats have. My only comment would be your location. Seeing you are in S.D., I'm certain there are Navy events that people would just drool over looking at a vintage scale Navy boat. With the history of the boat, it'll add that those that stop and view. Keep us posted..

Gun Tech

It won't be firing any more, the likelihood of someone freaking out and the legal headaches are not worth it. The main deck and superstructure come off in three sections, each one is manageable by one person, if the original running gear goes away I expect the hull will lose another 50lbs or so. At that point I hope the hull could be moved around by two people. To offset the difference, I'll just add more lead ballast (on site, in the water) to get her riding correctly at the waterline. I am just a mechanical geek and love history, so this is a project I can sink my teeth into and not get overwhelmed. I love fabrication and devising technical solutions, so I'm safe there for upgrading, I just don't have the artistic quality that would have been necessary to construct it from scratch. My intent is to strip and repaint the hull after gutting it, then restore operability for propulsion and steering. That would allow me to test function with the stripped hull in the water. After that, I would disassemble each section of decking one at a time to strip, repair, repaint and reassemble. That way I could keep it manageable. Once all three sections are completed, I will worry about restoring features such as gun movement and lighting. There is enough room to hide a video camera in the bridge for a real world view if I ever get that geeked out on it. As I said, I don't want to detail it out more than it was, it has character just the way it is. I appreciate your value estimation, it more or less falls in line with what my gut was telling me.
Thanks

Mark

Gun Tech

ob nut,
You replied while I was pecking out a reply. You are spot on, I started out as a tin can sailor and now I work for the Navy fixing cannons for a living, so my love of Navy history is part of the drive for me. I agree that it should be a draw for my fellow Navy brethren.

Mark

Gun Tech

Well, we will see what happens, I am going up to see it again tomorrow and to see how extensive the supporting documentation is. Wish me luck, it looks like we may have a reached a dollar figure.

Mark

canabus

H Gun Tech
I would offer a low price because for the size and amount of work in restoring it.

I would look at rust in the boat.

Post pictures of the boat on all forum sites, but, it is going to be 100's of hours work and good amount of cash.

If looking to resell later I do not think you would make money, it would be for the love of the boat!!!

Also it is paint would be lead based !!!
What boat is it?????

Gun Tech

Well, I own a battleship! I am now the current caretaker of BB-44 the USS California in the configuration she had prior to the Pearl Harbor attack. When I finally saw all of the supporting documentation, I was blown away! There are blueprints, technical drawings, letters, professional 8x10 photos, magazines, articles, letters from the Navy and more than I can think of. It looks like the second owner was very active and gave it a lot of visibility, up through the late 1950's. Amazingly, I was able to clear enough space in the garage to be able to work on it here, rather than stash it at a friends house. I will try to attach some of the photos I took before now, I have dozens of new photos that I need to upload to my computer. I was able to quickly remove most of the gear out of the hull and have only the motor and the main drive gear (transmission) left in it.

Seems like my files are a bit large, when I have a chance I will resize them for easier loading.

Mark

Gun Tech

If anyone has suggestions how I should sort out the calculations for estimating required shaft RPM to propel this monster. The drive motor does not have any specs, has more wires than I have seen on a DC motor and after reading the 17 page technical report on operation, it seems that there was no such thing as speed control, it was full tilt forward or reverse and ran at an approximate speed of 5mph. I am making a SWAG that since the original full size ship had a shaft speed of 170rpm at 21 knots, that doubling speed that should get me a decent speed to look realistic. If that sounds like I am talking out of an orifice other than my mouth, you most likely are correct and I am open to suggestions.
Thanks

Mark

Hydro Junkie

Seeing what you are starting with, I'd do the following:
1) Replace the drive system with modern motors and speed controls to match. I'd run one larger motor into a gearbox with four outputs or two smaller ones, one for each side with a gearbox to the two shafts on that side of the ship.
2) If the radio gear is older, replace it with modern stuff. This goes especially for the servos and batteries since both can go bad both due to lack of used and age
3) To get the scale speed right, figure out what scale the ship is and run it at full throttle over a given distance. There are charts that are used to determine scale speeds, normally used by battle clubs, that you can use to determine if the speed needs to go up or down to be somewhat accurate. As you already guessed, no one wants to see a battleship planing out like a ski boat.

The Saylors

That thing is more legit than i thought! Good luck with restoring her, could look pretty awesome with a little tlc. HJ; i didn't even think about the lead paint! Very good call on that one. Make sure you are protected when you start stripping paint. Keep us posted, i would love to see how it turns out!

Gun Tech

Okay, the by the numbers.
1) It has a transmission with one input and four outputs with approximately a 0.85 reduction. Motor is already on the to-do list.
2) Older? Are you kidding, this thing operates on the 160 meter band, I'm not about try to make that work and losing 50 to 60lbs of radio gear won't hurt my feelings.
3) That's why I'm asking, the motor I looking at could make this thing hydroplane @ 34,000 rpm full tilt, only 9600rpm @ 12V
I just got a high torque servo for the rudder, but I will have to machine a sprocket to mount on the servo so I can keep the chain drive

Mark.

Hydro Junkie

1) Replace the drive system with modern motors and speed controls to match. I'd run one larger motor into a gearbox with four outputs or two smaller ones, one for each side with a gearbox to the two shafts on that side of the ship. It has a transmission with one input and four outputs with approximately a 0.85 reduction. Motor is already on the to-do list.
You will need to either get a very low RPM motor or gear down the input to the gearbox. A 0.85 reduction isn't going to be enough to slow the props down to get you a scale-looking speed and slowing it down that much will put a serious load on the ESC
2) If the radio gear is older, replace it with modern stuff. This goes especially for the servos and batteries since both can go bad both due to lack of used and age Older? Are you kidding, this thing operates on the 160 meter band, I'm not about try to make that work and losing 50 to 60lbs of radio gear won't hurt my feelings.
Sounds like you're going to need a 6+ channel radio to handle the throttle, rudder and turrets. A twin stick aircraft style will work well in this case
3) To get the scale speed right, figure out what scale the ship is and run it at full throttle over a given distance. There are charts that are used to determine scale speeds, normally used by battle clubs, that you can use to determine if the speed needs to go up or down to be somewhat accurate. As you already guessed, no one wants to see a battleship planing out like a ski boat. That's why I'm asking, the motor I looking at could make this thing hydroplane @ 34,000 rpm full tilt, only 9600rpm @ 12V
A low speed/high torque motor or gearing down would take care of the speed issue as stated above. If the model is as heavy as you say, it's going to take a lot of torque to get it moving and keep it moving without damaging the motor or ESC
4) I just got a high torque servo for the rudder, but I will have to machine a sprocket to mount on the servo so I can keep the chain drive
I'd dump the chain drive in this case. Your high torque servo will work fine, just locate it close to the rudder and use a simple pushrod and tiller set up. It will make adjusting easier and give you more positive control than having the weight and slop of a chain drive

ob nut

My Feedback: (1)

If you have a need for an extreme amount of channels, look into RadioSouth. They can take a old TX and make them 2.4.

Looks sweet. Nice find.

Gun Tech

HJ and OB,
Please don't think that I don't value your input. I seem to be having difficulty getting a few points across, so please let me clarify.
- The transmitter alone weighs over 40lbs and plugs into a wall socket.
- There is not a single servo in sight. Inside the hull was that 50-60lbs I was talking about, consisting of radio receivers, banks of vacuum tubes, relays and other mysterious electrical devices
- A tiller and link rod would be too flimsy and not allow adequate rudder sweep. It's chain for a reason and I see no reason to complicate it, all I have to do is machine a sprocket.
- Right now, I only need to concern myself with a 2ch radio. Forward, reverse, left and right. My initial goal is to get the hull only, under power, I have a Spektrum DX2, so that will work for initial testing.
I apologize if my answers are short and choppy, the site keeps lagging and it is hard to type.
Thanks

Mark

Gun Tech

Now I am at work and hopefully I can type a bit more easily without having to see what the screen has caught up to. I apologize if I sounded defensive, I was trying to convey as much info as I could in the least amount of typing. I welcome the input.
Thanks

Mark

ob nut

My Feedback: (1)

Mark, no offense taken. My point is that if you have a TX that you like (not the one in the purchase), it can be upgraded to 2.4 via RadioSouth. If you want to go crazy and put 10-? channel on the TX, they can do that. On the equipment with the purchase, sounds like that needs to be in a museum.

Gun Tech

OB,
OOOHH! RadioSouth looks like something of interest for down the road. I am hoping to load it in my truck for Saturday and go to the local RC pond and introduce myself to the local club, the San Diego Argonauts. I figure it would be a heck of a conversation starter, even not running. Hopefully, some of them can help sort out the best way to get a well balanced drive system by having it right in front of them for a better assessment. As for the original transmitter console, it would be fun to create a replica with modern innards and RadioSouth looks like just the guys to accomplish it. I have been working my butt off on a 76mm gun on a visiting Coast Guard cutter this week, so I haven't had much energy to add more pictures to this thread, so I promise I will try to do more this weekend.

Mark

Got RPM

As others have mentioned, a new radio, battery, speed controller and motor are strongly recommended. The mid-20th century equipment can be sold, there are a few collectors who may be interested.

Consider a 50mm+ outrunner motor with a 'low' Kv, they have plenty of torque. Also we need to know the voltage you will want to use (and the desired run time) and the exact prop details. It may be time consuming to get there, but you will.


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ob nut

My Feedback: (1)

Might want to take a look at ServoCity. They might be a good source for items you are looking for. For one, sprockets and chains:https://www.servocity.com/motion-com...prockets-chain


Geared motors - RPM range 12 - 1621: https://www.servocity.com/motors-act...ry-gear-motors

Gun Tech

Well there seems to be a lot of factors that determine what would be a prop speed. I found references to a single 50mm 3 bladed prop on a tug boat that the owner was running at 3800rpm for pulling power. Considering I will have 4 props about the same diameter and a whole lot more weight to get moving, this may get interesting. If I really need some grunt, I found a brushless outrunner that produces the equivalent of 20hp, but I think it's safe to say I won't need quite that much LOL.

Mark

mfr02

Shaft RPM. If the full size is known, and the scale, multiply by the square root of the scale and you have the right numbers for an exact scale model. Usually add a few percent to compensate for any non scale bits. Much the same for motor power but divide by the cube root of the scale. Because figures for the original will be power output of the engines, you have to allow for electric motors being rated by power input and then allow for non-scale considerations, so up the number by 50%.