Fsttanks

Needing to completely refurbish my Heng Long T90 after two years of running it stupidly hard and the wheels literally falling off, but also wanting something new and fresh, I decided instead of refurbishing to buy a new 6.0 version with the "IR Battle System". Thinking this would be interesting to try out and see just how compatible it is with the Tamiya battle system. So I moved forward with the purchasing the new tank but at the last moment changed from a T90 to a T72. The T72 just offered me more flexibility in "build range ideas" (see separate build thread coming soon). Once it arrived it was straight out of the box and into testing the HL battle system against my Tamiya battle systems.

Heng Long T72 (undergoing build) used in 6.0 battle system compatibility testing.

TESTS: Stock Heng Long IR bulb and IR receiver.

My first test was an indoor test (up to 25 feet) and I was not expecting much. To my surprise it actually worked rather well both receiving hits and delivering hits (full 360 deg) from my Tamiya M4 and Abrams. The hit indication sound is similar to the one Tamiya uses followed by HL hit "shake" and headlights flashing. After SIX hits the HL tank is killed and makes a similar death sound as Tamiya. It then shuts down for about 5 seconds and then goes into its restart. During the SIX hits the HL system DOES NOT slow the tank down with "damage" but does stop the tank if it is hit while moving to allow for the hit "shake" and light flashing. There is no setting for tank weight classes so SIX and dead is what you get. Roughly a "medium tank" setting. Oh almost forgot.....it does not take hit if the turret is rotating.

My second test was outdoors with no obstructions between the tanks. It was conducted about noon time on an light overcast day, so not overly bright but not gray light either. Here is were is got interesting as ranges increased. First test was at 25 feet and there was no difference from the indoor test. Second test was at 50 feet and surprisingly again it both gave and received hits reliably in full 360 deg. The 50 foot mark was the bench mark I was hoping for as this seems to be the majority of the max ranges most organized battle fields have.

I now pressed the range out to 75 feet and here is where things became unpredictable. The HL system could easily send hits, but would only receive one hit in fifteen and only at limited angles to its "apple". Thinking my aim might be off, I place one of my Tamiya equipped tanks just behind the HL tank with both IR receivers "Apples" in alinement to act as a hit indicator "backstop". At 75 feet the "backstop" Tamiya was taking hits when the HL was not so I knew my aim was "on target".

Moving in from 75 feet the hits on the HL system became easier, but it was not until returning to the 50 foot range that they became consistent and the hit angles returned to 360 deg.

This was all just basic testing and overall to this point the HL battle system does deliver compatibility with the Tamiya battle system up to 50 feet. How it does in actual IR fighting against Clark and IBU control boards will be the next test. I will be running this tank at the next LA Tank Club battle the first Sunday in Oct. If you are in the SoCal area and would like to see or try first hand the new 6.0 HL battle system in action then please stop by the battle. I will post my findings after the battle.

As always your constructive input or questions are welcome.


HL 6.0 battle system making hit on Tamiya battle system at roughly 50 feet. Red circle is HL T72 firing position.


HL 6.0 battle system firing at and being fired on by Tamiya battle system at 75 feet. Red circle is Tamiya tank.


HL IR bulb emitter hole is about a 3-4mm opening in this particular tank.


HL IR bulb.

Fsttanks

Continued testing both the tank and IR battle system to find what a fair balance in IR battling against Tamiya (Clark, IBU?) system would be. During the testing drivers did switch tank types (HL T72 vs Tamiya M51,Abrams and HL M41 with Tamiya electronics) and fought with all on the setting combinations below.

When the 6.0 Heng Long T72 is run in High Power/Speed mode within the 50 foot "even hit ability range", it's lack of "damage speed reduction" gives it a marked advantage over Tamiya tanks set on med and heavy. Against the Tamiya light tank setting it is about even and the advantage goes to the more skilled driver.

The 6.0 Heng Long T72 set on the Low Power/Speed mode within the 50 foot "even hit ability range" coupled with the 3 second immobile "hit dance" it becomes a sitting duck for Tamiya tanks set on light and the engagements become more weighted toward a Tamiya tank win. The Tamiya may loose speed due to damage, but unlike the 6.0 Heng Long T72 it can continue to maneuver and during firing it has 1 second of invulnerability, which used tactically on a light tank that can fire every 3 seconds leaves only a 2 second window in which the 6.0 Heng Long T72 could engage IF the turret is aimed correctly. Given the 6.0 Heng Long T72 3 seconds of immobility after being hit and being able to receive hit after hit it becomes clear how fast the 6.0 Heng Long T72 can be killed by a Tamiya tank set on light with its ability to fire fast and potentially very limited 2 seconds of vulnerability.

The 6.0 Heng Long Low Power setting vs a Tamyia set on med. is the most fair fight all things considered. Our testing showed it was clearly driver experience that largely won the engagement. We will be conducting more testing with are larger cross section of drivers for the 6.0 Heng Long T72 at this weekends LA Tank Battle meet. It will be interesting to see if and how the results may change.


6.0 HL T72 just prior to getting set up to fight Tamiya Abrams (apples not in yet). The Abrams shown is easily twice as fast as the T72 set on the 6.0 HP setting and was the only tank set on HEAVY to win consistently against the T72 in HP mode. It could matched speed for speed even after 5 hits.

Fsttanks

After a long day of fighting with the LA Tank Club at their monthly IR battle I can say the new Heng Long 6.0 system matched with the T72 was overall quite a joy to fight with. The 6.0 IR system gave as good as it got both taking hits and giving them from all the various IR systems being used from Tamiya, Clark, IBU, Mako and even another 6.0 Heng Long tank.

There were some issue that came up. First being a need for better "hit indications". The Heng Long "hit dance" just does not cut it. I found it hard to tell if my own tank was getting hit and others also mentioned it was hard to tell as well. Fortunately this should be an easy fix with the "plug and play" open LED power slots in the new 6.0 MFU or by simply tying into the headlights and running a few red LEDs to one of the turret hatches to provide for a more visual "hit indication" since the headlights flash when hit.

Second, the Heng Long 6.0 CAN NOT be hit when the turret is turning! This can be unintentional due to simply and honestly trying to engage a target while being shot at, or intentional to avoid being hit by an opponents fire. Kind of a fine line that exist and might need to be addressed prior to game play.

Third issue and the most probable some is having obstructions blocking the IR receiver. This was a big issue with the other Heng Long 6.0 tank (ABRAMS) that was in attendance at the battle day. With it's two MGs, thermal sight, open hatches and commander figure present on the turret, 7 out of 10 frontal quarter shots (conservatively) were blocked. It would only reliably take hits from the side or rear of the turret were there was a clear line of sight to the IR receiver. The new Heng Long 6.0 IR receiver is just not sensitive enough for all the extras to be present on the turret during IR battling as was evident with the 6.0 Heng Long ABRAMS in comparison to my relatively clean T72 turret and the ease of which it was receiving hits.

Lastly is firing the IR. It can be done in two ways. First in conjunction with the Airsoft system and second with the MG. With the airsoft system it fires a single pulse and with the MG it fires continuously. I use the MG to fire the IR, with a one second push of the button. Then count to five before firing another shot. This mimics the Tamiya med tanks setting. I personally do not like the idea of having to firing the airsoft system in conjunction with the IR as this is safety issue to me and presents many possible issues. Others may feel different and that's ok.

Below are a few photo from the battle testing. As always your constructive input is welcome.


Heng Long T72 with new 6.0 IR battle system during LA Tank Clubs monthly battle


Heng Long 6.0 during live battle testing.


Heng Long 6.0 IR system during live IR battle testing. T72 closest to bottom of photo.

heavyaslead

Thanks so much for your info!

Can the T72 perform a fan shot?

i.e. hit multiple targets by rotating via tracks while firing

Fsttanks

Fsttanks

Little modification to the IR "hit indication" feature of the new Heng Long 6.0 system today after the weekends live IR battling at the LA Tank Club and feedback from a number of members.

The 6.0 system was lacking in a good visual hit indication to accompany the "hit dance" and "flashing head lights" (& tail light) as either can be effected by a number of factors visually and mechanically. In trying to keep things simple for those a little newer to r/c tanks and IR battling, I wanted the modification to be pretty much "plug and play" using what the 6.0 system had available built in from the factory without having to buy anything.

Knowing the new system allows a person to turn the lights on and off simply by pressing the "G" button on the remote and moving the left stick up/down = head lights/tail lights and by selection the tail lights to off (or both to off) still allows them to flash when receiving a hit, why not just move the red tail light LEDS up to a higher locations on the tank. With them turned off and upon the tank being hit, would flash RED similar to other brands of hit indicator lights and what fellow tankers are more familiar with seeing.

Now my T72 did not come with tails, but I had a set from an older 5.3 Heng Long tank that I used. I simply **spliced a small JST 2 female plug end (red plug in photo below) in place of the older style plug and inserted it into slot #3 (tail lights) on the 6.0 MFU. Once I did this, I tested my theory and it WORKED PERFECTLY!!! Now where to install the red LEDs? It had to be on the turret somewhere? In my case the T72 has little to choose from and so do other tanks. Aside from making something that elevates the red LEDs above the turret and keeping it easy enough that almost anyone could do it. Well the commanders view ports/hatch presented the obvious spots and would provide for a clean factory look.

I had to make a little space in the hatch area to fit the LEDs into place by removing a small amount of plastic that was blocking the view port access. Once I did this the LEDs fit right in and only needed very minor adjustment to find the best light output angle. I then drilled a small hole near the bottom of the hatch opening just big enough for the plug end to fit through and ran the LED lead wires into the the tank. Depending on where your 6.0 system is located you might as I did have to simply lengthen (splice in) the lead wire to ensure you have long enough wire to reach the 6.0 system and allow for full turret rotations. Once done I plugged into the #3 slot, tested the modification and again perfect operation.

Now you do loose having tail lights, but you will gain much more in visual effects and usability if you IR battle your tank. Keep in mind this is only a cheap and easy no special skills need way to improve the visual "hit indication" for those just starting out.

Here is the overview of how it works once the mod is completed:
1. Turn on tank as normal. All lights will be flashing.

2. Set tail lights to OFF by pressing "G" button and moving left stick down at the same time.
(can also set head lights to off for even more effect by pressing "G" button and moving left stick up.)
3. When hit red LEDs will flash then turn back off. Stock 6.0 programing for tail lights.

4. Once tank is killed, all lights will flash during "dead tank pause". Stock 6.0 programing

5. When tank restarts after "pause" all lights will be on and you must reset them for the next battle or they will operate with stock 6.0 programing for tail lights. Refer back to #2 (this take less then 1 second).

**Splicing was done in the simplest on manners by cutting the wires, removing the protective wire covering, twisting the corresponding matching colored wires together and taping them with electrical tape. No heat soldering was done. Yes....I know, some folks here will loose their minds hearing that, but for those with little skill its easy and works well enough until they gain more experience. The point of this was to keep the mod as simple as possible.

Below are some photo of the modification. You can make it more simple or more advanced on your tank just don't be afraid to try. As aways your constructive input is welcome.


Red tail light LEDs moved to improve IR battling "hit indication".


Commanders hatch opening showing the LED lead wires. Also note the red light coming out of the front sides.

#3 slot for tail lights, red plug

Inside the turret, LED wires coming through the bottom of the commanders hatch position.


Red LED tail lights now ready to begin use as additional visual "hit indicators".


Modification of commanders hatch and associated LED wires.


Another view angle.


Another view angle.

RichJohnson

Great discovery. Now it will be more noticeable when the tank is hit and knocked out. The draw back is the tanker really cant see it very well. Maybe routing it up to the hatch where the apple plugs into and then sticking a large after market LED out of the hatch on a post would be more visible for all around, albeit not low profile for looks, but would serve to make notification.

Fsttanks

Wozwasnt

Best part is that there are V6.0 equipped tanks going for less the Ł90 on ebay. So for under Ł200 you can get two tanks and start battling.

Fsttanks

I wanted to touch on the use of the airsoft system to fire the the IR beam. There are many like me that do not want even the slightest possibility of inadvertently launching a BB during IR battling, but would like to use the "main gun" sound and new softer track recoil for the effects they offer. So I after speaking with another well respected RCU member and very active IR tank battler about the issue, I tore back into the 6.0 system wiring layout. Looking to use the stock "main gun" firing sequence of "B" button then "A" button to fire the IR beam, produce the gun sound and allow for track recoil. Well it was really simple! All that was needed was to tie the airsoft motor leads together (red&black) and tape the "U" shaped metal "track recoil" switch so both metal sides touched. These two thing allows the 6.0 system to "think" the "airsoft feature" has fired when the "B & A" buttons have been pressed and thus allows the IR beam to fire, main gun to sound and the track to recoil (the new track recoil has three settings) to engage.

The stock 6.0 system can not fire the airsoft when the turret is turning and stops the tank when moving to fire, this remains unchanged.

While I had everything taken apart, I also tested was the ability of the 6.0 system to fire the "Hight Output" aftermarket IR bulbs. IT CAN! The question at this point would be, why would it need to since it can already hit a Tamiya IR receiver at ranges up to 75ft, yet can only be hit itself reliably no more the *50ft away.

* Clear and bright noonday to early afternoon sunlight is showing to reduces the ability of the 6.0 IR system to take hits even from "High Output" IR bulbs due to the IR receiver not being "shaded" (fins seen around most IR receivers). Early morning, late afternoon, shaded areas and overcast lighting so far have enabled the best performance from the 6.0 IR receiver.

Fsttanks

Worked up a simple and easy sun shade for the new Heng Long 6.0 IR receiver after an issue came up with bright noon day sunlight and a HUGE reduction in the ability of the receiver to register hits. Unlike prior testing and use in early morning and overcast/shaded sunlight the IR receiver appears to be "blinded" by clear bright noon and early afternoon sun light. To address this issue I added a the sun shade.

I used an old Tamiya apple shade and made a plastic round base and top piece. Then placed the the Tamiya shade between them. It is all held in place with two rubber o-ring on the receiver shaft pushing up on the plastic base, a drop of CA glue and thin foam servo tape. No permanent modifications were mare to the receiver and he sun shade can be removed easily.

I then tested it in bright noon day sunlight and thankfully it worked to greatly improve the ability of the new 6.0 IR receiver to register hits in bright sunlight. It is though still not as good as prior testing with morning and overcast lighting. Maximum 360deg. hits were reduced from 50ft to 35ft and only frontal hit would register at ~ 50ft. A note here the IR beam being fired at the 6.0 receiver was a "High Output" bulb fired by a Tamiya battle system, a stock Tamiya or Heng Long IR bulb might have lessor results.

I am soon going to be trying other IR receivers from Heng Long, Tamiya and a few independent manufactures to test for compatibility and hopefully improved overall performance in all lighting conditions.

Photos below of the new Heng Long 6.0 IR receiver with "home made" sun shade taken during battle testing in "high" noon sunlight. Your constructive input is welcome.




Sun shade on T72 undergoing combat testing.


Sun shade on T72 undergoing combat testing. Note the rubber o-rings on bottom holding it in place.


35ft away and maximum reliable range the new 6.0 IR receiver would register 360deg. hits with the sun shade attached.

Fsttanks

Fsttanks

Testing continues with some interesting finding to come about IR receiver options. In the mean time here is a teaser, YES you know what IR receiver that is. For how well or not it works check back soon.


Tamiya IR receiver matted to Heng Long 6.0 IR battle system.



Tamiya IR receiver matted to Heng long 6.0 IR battle system.

Fsttanks

Pah co chu puk

Thanks for posting your research.

Shorty54

Excellent review and testing!
Overall, these could be purchased and put into a Tamiya IR battle field out of the box....
So, all that is left it appears, is to figure out a way to add battle damage, slow the functions after hits, correct?

A needed electronics guru could help this out? There must be simple way? Maybe not.....?

Thanks again for in depth tests and review!

Shad

Fsttanks

I have been working with two clubs here in Ca the LA Tank Club and San Diego Tank Club to formulate the best way to integrate a "handicap" type approach for use of the new 6.0 system in their battles so to even out the odds with other systems. What seems to be a good combination is to run the 6.0 system on low power setting and to put one or two "hits" on the tank (depending on class of tank) prior to the start of each battle. The low power speed setting coupled with fewer hits seems to be working out fairly well.
There are issues still when it comes to firing rate as this is reliant on the counting speed and honesty of the operator, but is easily monitored and is obvious if abused.

These are not Heng Long only issues though. There are other systems like Clark that when NOT programed to match Tamiya's damage or firing rates give the Clark systems a HUGE advantage over Tamiya systems. At current the 6.0 system when running as stated above is in my opinion more fair to fight against then a Clark system that is NOT programed to match the Tamiya systems.

Uparmor

Insightful review. I was going to buy a Clark system for my Henglong Abrams to achieve the better handling we talked about. I think now just buying one of the 6.0 or 6.1 versions will work out better. Any chance I can get you to due your magic on another Abrams suspension build and the lighting mods you wrote about in this thread?

Majordisastor

Good review,some very interesting points covered throughout.Thank you for taking the time and trouble for testing and writing it up !

Fsttanks

During a recent IR battle day with the San Diego Tank Club there was a chance to test the 6.0 IR system on an overcast day while using the sunshade mod. Happy to report that the 6.0 IR system was able to keep pace with all the others in attendance. It was even able to exchange static hit for hit with my Tamiya M51 at almost 200ft ! This would seem unbelievable, but was witnessed by several of the club members.

The hit indication red LED mod proved to work well, but a slight improvement was still needed. Prior to the battle day I added a third basic red LED coming out and above the commanders hatch (see photo below) that can be tucked away out of sight under the hatch when not needed. This additional red LED worked if one was close enough to see it ~15ft. After the battle I replaced this red LED with a brighter clear LED that illuminates red while lighted (see photo below). As you can see it is quite bright and should now be able to be seen much further away. Plus it is not as noticeable and looks less intrusive.

I have to say I am really liking the HL 6.0 system and the T72. So much so I bought another T72 to due a "modernization/update/life extension program" themed build thread starting soon.


Notice basic red LED above and rear of commanders hatch. It was not bright enough when lit.


New clear/red LED


Clear/red LED is much brighter and can be see we lighted much further away.

Alan123

Hello,

This is a great report. Thanks for writing it.

With the Tamiya BU one can angle at 45 degrees to deflect a hit can the new HL BU also do that? Sorry if you mentioned it already and I missed the mention. I did a search in the word angle and did not find mention of it and skim read the rest.

I have a T72 as well and have been experimenting and it does not look like you can angle with a HL BU.

Thanks

Alan

Fsttanks

mustclime

Fsttanks

The T72 in this thread was bought as a "test bed" to try out the new Heng Long 6.0 MFU and IR system, it was $200 delivered. Cheap though it was, it has proven to be an excellent and far better running tank then my first T90 (which shares most of the lower lower hull parts). Heng Long did the smart thing and added a simple yet effective idler wheel tensioner "similar" to what is found on the the Tamiya Abrams and Leopard 2 and it makes a big difference. I was having so much fun with the T72 during the testing that it has since been upgrades with metal road wheels, idlers, sprockets, MATO tracks, 390 motors, drive axle bearings and a larger 9.6v battery. To say its fast now is an understatement, easily +45mph scale and is now almost as fast as my upgraded motor Tamiya Abrams.

Even being heavier now with tons of extra power on tap it is still a kitty cat to drive at low speeds and very forgiving to even the most inexperienced drivers. I like it so much I am build another as a "Modernized" or "Updated" T72 that will be even faster and more capable off road, yet retain civilized handling IR battle characteristics. Still debating on weather or not to post a thread on the new "Modernized / Up dated" T72 build.

Below is the fresh T72 right out of the box next to the T72 used in this thread just moments before it was disassembled to be readied for the build ahead.



Blank slate T72 ready to become something unique.

mustclime