Growth: Whose responsiblity is it?
03-20-2019, 10:53 AM
#52
On further thought, I take back my question. It shouldn't be "WHAT has the AMA done for it's members to deserve some kind of special treatment?"
But rather "What have the members and clubs done to deserve some kind of special treatment?" After all, these are the parts the public sees most.
But rather "What have the members and clubs done to deserve some kind of special treatment?" After all, these are the parts the public sees most.
Astro
03-20-2019, 12:55 PM
#53
Well, here's a couple for starters...
FACT: after 80 years of being the premier organization for model aviation, The AMA SHOULD be a shoe-in for CBO status, yet they are not.
FACT: AMA members do not enjoy a single benefit or exemption from the FAA rules than non-members.
Astro
FACT: after 80 years of being the premier organization for model aviation, The AMA SHOULD be a shoe-in for CBO status, yet they are not.
FACT: AMA members do not enjoy a single benefit or exemption from the FAA rules than non-members.
Astro
Fact, the AMA is currently in negotiations with the AMA concerning exceptions for membership or as I call them “ paid customers “. Is there any other modeling group in talks with the FAA for exceptions?
The FAA has stated that we are to fly in accordance to CBO safety guidelines “ like the AMA “. That to most would be confirmation that the FAA recognizes the AMA as a CBO.
Since this thread has degraded to finger pointing and beating the dead horse rather then suggestions on how to support our hobby, this is where I depart.
03-20-2019, 02:53 PM
#54
Okay, let me tell you all that I've seen NOT WORK:
- Mall shows........The big shopping malls are becoming dinosaurs that are slowly dying off. When you look at the people who tend to go to the malls, it's normally the under 30 crowd. Most of these are into tech and instant gratification but are normally unable to afford to buy anything due to school loans and other "priorities". Most go to the mall to "hang out" with friends and window shop or see what everyone else is wearing. A table covered with "toys" is just something else to "window shop" as they walk by
- Meet & Greets.......These only work when you have the present members actually welcome visitors and show interest in said visitors. Once the members start break down into their own little "clicks", everything that might have been gained is gone, including possible new members
- Demonstrations.....These are a losing proposition from word go. People will come and watch, with the usual "WOW, THAT'S COOL!!!!" or similar reaction, but if you try to get someone to actually try the activity, they are gone faster than Speedy Gonzales. I've seen this happen in many hobby activities from R/C to dance. People will watch but don't ask them to try. People don't want to be seen failing. One wrong dance step or control input and that person is too embarrassed to try again and will be gone as fast as possible to prevent the possibility of having to try again.
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 03-20-2019 at 05:06 PM.
03-20-2019, 04:01 PM
#55
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
The FAA has stated that we are to fly in accordance to CBO safety guidelines “ like the AMA “. That to most would be confirmation that the FAA recognizes the AMA as a CBO.
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Since this thread has degraded to finger pointing and beating the dead horse rather then suggestions on how to support our hobby, this is where I depart.
Regards,
Astro
03-20-2019, 04:12 PM
#56
I’m going to blame it on the time I have been spending up north but it’s my turn to agree with you. The only real events I have found to work at all are club open houses and demonstrations at full scale air shows. That being said, we will usually gain only two or three new members per event.
That is why why when we do see somone with that spark we need to cultivate it into a flame. That was the main intent of giving that pattern airplane to that young man earlier this year. When I am settled in the new location I have a few more airplanes that will be donated to some worthy members of my new club. Like I said before, it’s what I am able to do right now.
That is why why when we do see somone with that spark we need to cultivate it into a flame. That was the main intent of giving that pattern airplane to that young man earlier this year. When I am settled in the new location I have a few more airplanes that will be donated to some worthy members of my new club. Like I said before, it’s what I am able to do right now.
03-20-2019, 04:35 PM
#57
Thread Starter
Okay, let me tell you all that I've seen NOT WORK:
- Mall shows........The big shopping malls are becoming dinosaurs that are slowly dying off. When you look at the people who tend to go to the malls, it's normally the under 30 crowd. Most of these are into tech and instant gratification but are normally unable to afford to buy anything due to school loans and other "priorities". Most go to the mall to "hang out" with friends and window shop or see what everyone else is wearing. A table covered with "toys" is just something else to "window shop" as they walk by
- Meet & Greets.......These only work when you have the present members actually welcome visitors and show interest in said visitors. Once the members start break down into their own little "clicks", everything that might have been gained is gone, including possible new members
- Demonstrations.....These are a losing proposition from word go. People will come and watch, with the usual "WOW, THAT'S COOL!!!!" or similar reaction, but if you try to get someone to actually try the activity, they are gone faster than Speedy Gonzales. I've seen this happen in many hobby activities from R/C to dance. People will watch but don't ask them to try. People don't want to be seen failing. One wrong dance step or control input and that person is too embarrassed to try again and will be gone as fast as they to prevent the possibility of having to try again.
How long does it take to learn? This one is very hard to answer because we all learn at different rates but based on our experience the quickest people have been in around 22 hours. This is what one club said.
Another club claimed that it should take at least 50 15 minute lessons to start before you can solo. This might have something to do with a difficulty to recruit and keep new members.
Also:
Last edited by fliers1; 03-20-2019 at 05:02 PM.
03-20-2019, 05:21 PM
#58
How Long Until I’m Solo
How long does it take to learn? This one is very hard to answer because we all learn at different rates but based on our experience the quickest people have been in around 22 hours. This is what one club said.
Another club claimed that it should take at least 50 15 minute lessons to start before you can solo. This might have something to do with a difficulty to recruit and keep new members.
Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfsV_oualnE The plane is too small, too fast and it sounds a bit windy. There isn't much communication. "You got it...I got it".
How long does it take to learn? This one is very hard to answer because we all learn at different rates but based on our experience the quickest people have been in around 22 hours. This is what one club said.
Another club claimed that it should take at least 50 15 minute lessons to start before you can solo. This might have something to do with a difficulty to recruit and keep new members.
Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfsV_oualnE The plane is too small, too fast and it sounds a bit windy. There isn't much communication. "You got it...I got it".
03-20-2019, 06:07 PM
#59
I remember when the AMA was able to work with the Government and the FCC to protect the radio frequencies that we all used at the time. It seemed that there was a general understanding of who and what the AMA was and what it represented and was recognized and respected for its relevance by the government and the general public. The AMA was granted "special" treatment by being granted a range of frequencies to be used for model aviation.
...
...
I understand those who say that an organization fighting for special treatment for their members only is reasonable. I can't really argue with that philosophy.
On the other hand I know people who became members of the NRA simply because they fought for their rights as gun owners even before they were members and joined for the sole purpose of supporting the organization that was fighting for their rights. Imagine if people used the same reasoning to become AMA members because the AMA was fighting for and representing the rights of ALL model aircraft hobbyists rather than only paid members. I guess we will never know how well that might work... Just an odd thought...
03-20-2019, 06:58 PM
#60
This is a very good example of action by the AMA in years gone by to support the hobby of model aviation. The difference between then and now is that I believe back then the AMA considered itself to represent RC model aircraft enthusiasts in general. The frequencies they secured for the RC hobby were secured for all who enjoyed the hobby. If our current AMA leadership were fighting for frequencies I believe they would be working at obtaining, for example, 2.4 ghz for use by only AMA members and those who wanted to use an RC aircraft transmitter would need to be a member.
The difference now is that the AMA is going it alone, trying to get the federal government to do what they want, without the other organizations and industry's help. Without the "muscle" provided by the other organizations and the R/C industry to back them, the AMA has become no more than an insect to the FAA and Congress, an annoyance at best, something to be swatted away and ignored at worst.
03-20-2019, 07:02 PM
#61
This is a very good example of action by the AMA in years gone by to support the hobby of model aviation. The difference between then and now is that I believe back then the AMA considered itself to represent RC model aircraft enthusiasts in general. The frequencies they secured for the RC hobby were secured for all who enjoyed the hobby. If our current AMA leadership were fighting for frequencies I believe they would be working at obtaining, for example, 2.4 ghz for use by only AMA members and those who wanted to use an RC aircraft transmitter would need to be a member.
I understand those who say that an organization fighting for special treatment for their members only is reasonable. I can't really argue with that philosophy.
On the other hand I know people who became members of the NRA simply because they fought for their rights as gun owners even before they were members and joined for the sole purpose of supporting the organization that was fighting for their rights. Imagine if people used the same reasoning to become AMA members because the AMA was fighting for and representing the rights of ALL model aircraft hobbyists rather than only paid members. I guess we will never know how well that might work... Just an odd thought...
I understand those who say that an organization fighting for special treatment for their members only is reasonable. I can't really argue with that philosophy.
On the other hand I know people who became members of the NRA simply because they fought for their rights as gun owners even before they were members and joined for the sole purpose of supporting the organization that was fighting for their rights. Imagine if people used the same reasoning to become AMA members because the AMA was fighting for and representing the rights of ALL model aircraft hobbyists rather than only paid members. I guess we will never know how well that might work... Just an odd thought...
03-21-2019, 03:01 AM
#62
Banned
Okay, let me tell you all that I've seen NOT WORK:
- Mall shows........The big shopping malls are becoming dinosaurs that are slowly dying off. When you look at the people who tend to go to the malls, it's normally the under 30 crowd. Most of these are into tech and instant gratification but are normally unable to afford to buy anything due to school loans and other "priorities". Most go to the mall to "hang out" with friends and window shop or see what everyone else is wearing. A table covered with "toys" is just something else to "window shop" as they walk by
- Meet & Greets.......These only work when you have the present members actually welcome visitors and show interest in said visitors. Once the members start break down into their own little "clicks", everything that might have been gained is gone, including possible new members
- Demonstrations.....These are a losing proposition from word go. People will come and watch, with the usual "WOW, THAT'S COOL!!!!" or similar reaction, but if you try to get someone to actually try the activity, they are gone faster than Speedy Gonzales. I've seen this happen in many hobby activities from R/C to dance. People will watch but don't ask them to try. People don't want to be seen failing. One wrong dance step or control input and that person is too embarrassed to try again and will be gone as fast as possible to prevent the possibility of having to try again.
Not everything works everytime everywhere. But waiting for Muncie to drive or force in the members works even worse. Expanding the hobby is an activity that requires a lot of time for little return. It's always been that way. But it will do more for the hobby than sitting in front of the idiot box with another remote.
And I know of clubs who have been able to cash in on the good will generated by their community activities. When in need of a new flying site, the local government went to work for them and found one. In some cases the locals even helped prepare the new field.
03-21-2019, 05:04 AM
#64
As bad as you may think the AMA is it is the only organization that has argued on the side of modelers. You whiners, complainers, non members couldn't agree or get along within your own ranks long enough to form a rational group. In other words you guys couldn't organize a decent bowel movement in a two seater outhouse. How many years have you guys been bitxhing now and what have any of you done other than complain and wanting someone else to do the work. You guys are so off topic from what the op intended. All he wanted is recognition of his method of teaching people how to fly.
Good Grief
Good Grief
03-21-2019, 07:48 AM
#65
Banned
As bad as you may think the AMA is it is the only organization that has argued on the side of modelers. You whiners, complainers, non members couldn't agree or get along within your own ranks long enough to form a rational group. In other words you guys couldn't organize a decent bowel movement in a two seater outhouse. How many years have you guys been bitxhing now and what have any of you done other than complain and wanting someone else to do the work. You guys are so off topic from what the op intended. All he wanted is recognition of his method of teaching people how to fly.
Good Grief
Good Grief
03-21-2019, 11:10 AM
#69
Originally Posted by propworn
In other words you guys couldn't organize a decent bowel movement in a two seater outhouse.
Astro
03-21-2019, 11:22 AM
#70
LOL , so Astro, do you know what the current status is on the AMA seeking exceptions for their paid customers is?
Not to mention that using some people's logic, if someone is not a US citizen one cannot comment on the status of the AMA. Wouldn't the same apply for non customers of the AMA? Sounds like guys are making up the rules as we go.
03-21-2019, 11:49 AM
#71
Not specifically. The FAA has not announced any changes or exemptions. I will assume that anything beyond that is pure speculation.
Do you know? If so, I am all ears!
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Not to mention that using some people's logic, if someone is not a US citizen one cannot comment on the status of the AMA. Wouldn't the same apply for non customers of the AMA? Sounds like guys are making up the rules as we go.
Astro
03-21-2019, 12:11 PM
#73
Astro
03-21-2019, 01:42 PM
#74
You forgot one there. Sitting on ones arse waiting for Muncie to come up with some magic formula.
Not everything works everytime everywhere. But waiting for Muncie to drive or force in the members works even worse. Expanding the hobby is an activity that requires a lot of time for little return. It's always been that way. But it will do more for the hobby than sitting in front of the idiot box with another remote.
And I know of clubs who have been able to cash in on the good will generated by their community activities. When in need of a new flying site, the local government went to work for them and found one. In some cases the locals even helped prepare the new field.
Not everything works everytime everywhere. But waiting for Muncie to drive or force in the members works even worse. Expanding the hobby is an activity that requires a lot of time for little return. It's always been that way. But it will do more for the hobby than sitting in front of the idiot box with another remote.
And I know of clubs who have been able to cash in on the good will generated by their community activities. When in need of a new flying site, the local government went to work for them and found one. In some cases the locals even helped prepare the new field.
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 03-21-2019 at 01:51 PM.
03-21-2019, 01:46 PM
#75
Correct, as of now there are no exceptions for AMA members. That does not mean they are not forthcoming. The FAA has NOT told AMA they will not grant any exceptions for AMA members as of yet.
In the meantime, I was at my local club field both Saturday and Sunday practicing the AMA Masters pattern sequence, impossible to do under 400’. Nobody cared.
In the meantime, I was at my local club field both Saturday and Sunday practicing the AMA Masters pattern sequence, impossible to do under 400’. Nobody cared.